Legal/illegal? (all about internet piracy) (1)



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Ruslana Forum / Off-Topic / Legal/illegal? (all about internet piracy)
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wespecz
Moderator
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 00:54 - Edited by: wespecz
Reply 


nedalex
Hop from the topic "new remixes" to the new one.

There are also on Youtube many videos which (let's be serious!) are not using the music recorded on official DVD's, official download links or ....whatever... And all those videos are really appreciated by all of you (including Ruslana Youtube channel - Favorites or on this forum).
Indeed, there are milions of illegal videos on Youtube. But the intention is just to not make it easier for theese who are downloading illegal downloads by posting the direct download links for the latest released songs.

No matter if the music is one week or 30 years-old!
You are right! But intention is more to protect the latest stuff. It have the priority. Especially songs included in albums (studio versions) and which are for sale and especially the latest ones or where you can expect that they will appear in the albums - studio versions.

However, linking on "official" sites (like yours) should be an efficient counterstrike against "really illegal" download links! For better promotion!
There is the responsibility. When he runs "official" site.

Edit: I took it wrong first time. It sounded to me as if you are against posting illegal links to the official websites. That's why there was my agree before editing it now.

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 08:40 - Edited by: nikoleta_rangelova
Reply 



nedalex


There are also on Youtube many videos which (let's be serious!) are not using the music recorded on official DVD's,

No, they don't. But I am not responsible for youtube.com

Remember the "race" for downloading "Fire or Ice" video!
Legal???Pffuuuu!!! .....Ssstt!


And yes, everybody can download from there. It seems people are always atracted by the easiest variant. And why not, since it is available.

Imagine Ruslana released a new album next month (because kozi'z argument was that the song hadn't been on any album yet) and there were million people who would buy the album only becaus of that single song. And they received the single song just like a present. They wouldn't buy the album then. And? We have shared songs and versions which are years old and about which we've been sure won't appear on a new album. For the old-okay. And yet, Heart On Fire, a three year old song was included in WE.

By the way, last year, just when Ruslana's audio-piracy campaign was at "its top", many of the Ukrainian fan-sites I knew and visited had closed their media-sections with the explanation that they supported Ruslana and the fight against piracy.

No matter if the music is one week or 30 years-old!


Yes, no matter, it shouldn't be shared But we have turned the forum into an illegal place for sharing old music, anyway.

However, linking on "official" sites (like yours) should be an efficient counterstrike against "really illegal" download links! For better promotion!

If he/I received Ruslana's personal permition to upload the newest songs, I would call it promotion.

It would be ridiculous to have this in the main column of tha main site, and in the same time, somewhere in the official fanclub, a rapidshare link.
If they wanted, they could make it possible for download themselves- as they did with Amazonka. And even there, there is a chance for those with consciousness, for those who respect appreciate an artist's work, to pay. No download link on Ruslana's main site, no download link on DJ Small's MySpace site. Well?

What would make us different than all those piracy-sites that offer WE a day after its release? Or a day before? How would you feel if your 4-year work was offered somewhere without your permission, without you receiving anything for it? You say, it would be a great promotion. Yes, kozi has made the promotion by linking the main site, this is great. We are also trying to link it everywhere where it is possible and to highlight the main site, the "centre" of Ruslana's world for those, who live outside UA, as much as possible.

Before, there were some ideas here to collect all the internet links that offer music for free and do don't remember what with them, or at least report them to Ruslana's manager and staff. Well, imagine a link of a Ruslana official fanclub among all those unknown sites' pirate links. Embarrassing.

I suppose that he has already done more than "at least"... My unofficial opinion!

Has anyone denied that? Ruslana and Sasha appreciate his work, he had even an article in the main site. He undoubtedly did a lot.

If Ruslana is against piracy, I am also against it. If she said: hey people do what you find appropriate with my music, I have earned my lliving for the rest of my life and don't care if you steal from me.... if that had happened, the situation would have been different.

KPGirl
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 11:00
Reply 


I´m against piracy and especially since Ruslana is too. But still, sometimes you get so head over heels for songs so you just must have it. And the worse is that If it wouldn´t be any album for it/them. Like the instrumentals or those old song like Drum´n dance or the original Heart on Fire.
Talking about that, when are they going to be posted on her site? So far we have the amazonka album there why not these old songs and more soon?

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 11:27 - Edited by: nedalex
Reply 


nikoleta_rangelova

Thanks so much for the effort and interest to answer me, Niki!

I agree with what you posted! Maybe it's more than necessary!
Who would not agree? All considerations are correct, of good sense, very well known by almost everyone! I think so!

If he/I received Ruslana's personal permition to upload the newest songs, I would call it promotion.

By the way, have you already tried to get permission to post that remixes?
It will be realy great to get them ...officialy!

One reason why many people prefer to use illegal links is that just they can not find what they would like on the official sites! In this way they are held away from the official sites (even these have the advantage of providing more information about Ruslana almost on-line, leading to a better promotion).

And even there, there is a chance for those with consciousness, for those who respect appreciate an artist's work, to pay.

Personally, I admit that almost everything I have about Ruslana it was initialy taken from other sources, for the simple reason I couldn't find the official Ruslana music. When the opportunity come up, I did not hesitate to buy official DVDs (from Ukraine or UMKA) although their content is already on my computer! Even now I'm waiting for DVD's ordered on UMKA!

Anyway, my sadness is mostly related to the fact that you have not clarify this problem (related to posting that 2 remixes) in a more private way! I will keep this opinion!
It is the only issue on which you are not referring!
But i hope it is a misunderstanding!
You are a "team"! Right!?
Thanks again for your post!

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 12:00 - Edited by: nikoleta_rangelova
Reply 


nedalex
It is the only issue on which you are not referring!
Okay: we have had similar private "clarifications" twice before. Between my first comment-suggestion-opinion, my second, and my third-action, there is about 20 min. I always try to give members a chance to edit their post themselves(if these are mambers who we know and are friends with, of course). And, may be it was better to express opinion in public once than 10 times in private. Do you feel better now?


One reason why many people prefer to use illegal links is that just they can not find what they would like on the official sites!

With this I absolutely agree. I have also, sort if, criticized the main site, because they give an option for download and and opition to buy. However, sending sms is not available for all countries.

Personally, I admit that almost everything I have about Ruslana it was initialy taken from other sources, for the simple reason I couldn't find the official Ruslana music.
And I am not talking personally about me, you and most of the members of this forum, but about the majority who take Ruslana just as an entertainment, who do not value her all music, but certain songs, who may listen once to the album and forget about it, who do not care of her creativity. Exposing a link in the internet means not only exposing it to the most devoted fans, but to everyone. But you know that.

It will be realy great to get them ...officialy!
Yes, who knows, may be we will soon get them. By giving a link for download we'll decrease the interest, the eagerness and the visits of the main site. Havig a chance to hear something on one site only is a great chance of showing how unique this site is. And this is the MAIN site after all. May be we will soon have other surprises.


KPGirl
Like the instrumentals

They are mostly fan-made. And which not... they have also been stolen from the singles But, as I said above, they are really old and often not available anywhere. I wanted to buy DWDW and TSS and WD singles from umka, but they weren't available.

cora
Moderator
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 12:35
Reply 


wespecz
nikoleta_rangelova

Well said! I absolutely agree with you!

Katherine
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 12:53 - Edited by: Katherine
Reply 


I say if its not released on an album (for example original heart on fire) than i wouldn't say it was illegal yes its audio piracy, but if it not going to be released than she wouldnt make money from it anyway so she hasnt lost any money... for the new mixes, its too quick to say that it is not released this maybe in a future DJ Small album so i am against this...

another example i have that new song "My Love" however it wasnt on the canadian version of the wild energy album.... i wouldn't be willing to spend another £15 or so on an album that i have with just one extra song.

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 18:31
Reply 


Hello, wespecz! Thanks for this topic!
By the way, which is the maximum allowed number of words in a message, here?

wespecz
Moderator
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:04
Reply 


nikoleta_rangelova
It would be ridiculous to have this in the main column of tha main site, and in the same time, somewhere in the official fanclub, a rapidshare link.
If they wanted, they could make it possible for download themselves

INDEED! Ruslana fights against piracy and who supports her will help her.

nedalex
By the way, have you already tried to get permission to post that remixes?
It will be realy great to get them ...officialy!

If they would be supposed to be for buying then DJ small would enable the buy or download possibility in his Myspace website. It's disabled so far.

cora
Well said! I absolutely agree with you!
Thank you!

Katherine
I say if its not released on an album (for example original heart on fire) than i wouldn't say it was illegal yes its audio piracy, but if it not going to be released than she wouldnt make money from it anyway so she hasnt lost any money... for the new mixes, its too quick to say that it is not released this maybe in a future DJ Small album so i am against this...
True that here it's not as much problem, yes. The latest stuff is.

nedalex
Hello, wespecz! Thanks for this topic!
I am glad to post it.

By the way, which is the maximum allowed number of words in a message, here?
Don't know exactly but I have used the online tool for counting letters and counted characters in my longest post ever which have reached the full allowed number of letters (the post contains especially invisible links to depict pictures). The online tool showed that there is 7598 characters.

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:05
Reply 


nedalex
By the way, which is the maximum allowed number of words in a message, here?
I guess, it depends on the length of the words No idea, but it usually automatically starts a second post by the same member if someone exceeds the "limit" for one post, be it by words or photos. You can make really huge posts.

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:12
Reply 


I guess, it depends on the length of the words No idea, but it usually automatically starts a second post by the same member if someone exceeds the "limit" for one post, be it by words or photos. You can make really huge posts.

Can I check that?

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:17
Reply 


nedalex
Can I check that?
What do you mean? Of course, are you going to copy something long? But if it is not relevant to this topic, do it please in the Free Chat. We already got a bit offtopic here.

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:20
Reply 


nikoleta_rangelova
It is about"Legal/illegal ?"

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:23
Reply 


nikoleta_rangelova
Do you feel better now?
No! I have got a cold yesterday and now I' m feeling even worst! This is a joke!
In fact, I apologize if I have your attention so much time to clarify this matter! Thanks again!

It is the only issue on which you are not referring!
Okay: we have had similar private "clarifications" twice before. Between my first comment-suggestion-opinion, my second, and my third-action, there is about 20 min. I always try to give members a chance to edit their post themselves(if these are mambers who we know and are friends with, of course). And, may be it was better to express opinion in public once than 10 times in private.

I think there are too many private details! But I got the idea!
Thanks!
That's all!

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:24
Reply 


At the lunch break, I printed out all the replies on this subject (I hope this is not illegal !!!), I took them with me in my office and I challenged my colleagues in a debate on this particular matter! They studied the printouts and in less than 10 minutes they were divided into 2 teams! I didn't imagine that my colleagues can be so enthusiastic: arguments and counterarg., angry faces on each side, the voices on high frequences, almost a fight.
But on this occasion I found new opinions!
One of my colleagues asked me the following:
What will you do in this situation? Let's suppose that tomorrow you will hear that I intend to buy a DVD with various songs, of various artists (from the pirate store located on the street No.X), a kind of Дwinter new dance mixes" album (of course, this DVD is made based on music downloaded from illegal links, this is not a secret), and among many other songs there are two songs of Ruslana! What will you do? Will you announce the police and advise me not to buy this DVD? Will you beat the seller? Or rather will you think that although I bought that DVD for another artist, not for Ruslana (let's suppose also that I never heard about her; anyway, this is true in case of my colleague), I will inevitably hear the songs no. 12 and 13, I will remain open-mouthed, shocked (in a very pleasant way), confused, and then I'll access Google, I will type ДRuslana", I'll hit Дenter", I'll find Ruslana official sites, RuslanaFanclub, etc, then I will probably order the official DVD on UMKA, I'll go to many Ruslana concerts, I will acclaime her, I will probably talk to others about Ruslana, they will probably do the same, maybe some of them will buy tickets and will go even in Ukraine or elsewhere for live shows or Дat least" they will buy official music, they will discuss on the forum, maybe one or more of them will have a free discussion with Nikoleta, etc.? And all of these caused by an Дordinary" DVD! And perhaps this can happen to all those who listen the Ruslana music! only have the chance! "
What can I answer? ... Of course I will choose the last option!

Good alternative!

At the end of the day two of my colleagues asked me for details about Ruslana! I gave them a copy of the original Amazonka album (this is completely illegal because it is similar to illegal downloading; probably they will copy that disc on theirs computers) and the record of Sumy concert; now I'm really curious to know the effects...
I don't really believe in the existance of that Дmajority"!
This topic and ... probably two fans more! I hope you will know them soon! I will give them the address of the MAIN site tomorow (if they want it).

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:33 - Edited by: nikoleta_rangelova
Reply 


nedalex
Let me know when your "two fans more" buy "Amazonka" from umka or somewhere else and I'll be glad to reply your above post

I got a headache of this topic, honestly

Oh, yes, I'd be glad to know them too (sincerely).

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 19:34 - Edited by: nedalex
Reply 


nikoleta_rangelova
sorry for this! Really
Headache: Me too!Believe me!

Alex__Angel
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 20:48 - Edited by: Alex__Angel
Reply 




Eng.
Strange.... Alike ideas in faithful direction concerning diminishing of the illegal copying of creation of Ruslana anymore visit fans... especially taking into account the words of Ruslana with its anti-piratic press-conference search ЂSomething, at first search for an
authorї.. That prompts faithful direction....

And on an official site something is, it is desirable to mark http://www.ruslanatv.com/, where something new appears regularly + there is baner on Ruslanatube (means support of this resource goes authors). It is possible not only to look but also load (to copy) a pleasing clip.
Also for a load an album is accessible ЂAmazonї, I understood so, that desire to reward an author for a pleasing song (exactly to reward, potomu-to there is a free load), executing is impossible because SMS foreseen only for a few countries, from other not whatever passes.
Unfortunately demand exceeds supplies considerably, not to find some disks in other countries, especially in time (disks are on sale the set time, then company rekorder stops to produce them). Ot here many are rescued by the Internet and people, I think so, at first search the resource of author (although in order to look information about a performer, what albums are yet) and if they there is nothing find on a site an author they search other ways which often are illegal....

I do not a little understand the action of command of Ruslana, why...
1. Considerably to multiply accessible on a site content, especially togo, that did not enter in albums. Examples a sea is Energy source, factory, Proschannya z disko, vodogray, Bek to SSSR, duet remix Svitanoc.
2. As an album ЂAmazonї, also to place albums which was given out early, and those which it is practically impossible to find on sale.
---
3. In the list of possible purchases to lay out references to on-line shops on a sale the hard licensed products .
4. Dividing into freely accessible and purchased content (where the sum of paying for all songs of album will make a sum a little cheaper by a market). To do a reward and purchase through Webmoney.
5. To create Fan section Ц where content will be accessible for Fans/admirers Ц Sempls for creation of remix, and load them on a site...

So look in the Internet and considerably the amount of illegal loads and references diminished including on this forum ;)

-------------

Ru.
—транно.... ѕохоже мысли в верном направлении по поводу уменьшени€ нелегального копировани€ творчества –усланы больше посещают фанов... особенно учитыва€ слова –усланы с ее анти пиратской пресс-конференции Ђ„то-то ищешь, сначала ищи у автораї.... „то подсказывает верное направление...
ƒа на официальном сайте что-то есть, хочетс€ отметить http://www.ruslanatv.com/, где регул€рно по€вл€етс€ что-то новенькое + есть банер на Ruslanatube (значит идет поддержка этого ресурса авторами). ћожно не только посмотреть но и загрузить (скопировать) понравившийс€ клип.
“акже дл€ загрузки доступен альбом Ђјмазонкаї, € так пон€л, что желание наградить автора за понравившуюс€ песню (именно наградить, потому-то есть и свободна€ загрузка) выполнить невозможно из-за того, что —ћ— предусмотрены лишь дл€ нескольких стран, с других не чего не проходит.
  сожалению спрос значительно превышает предложени€, некоторые диски не найти в других странах, особенно с течением времени (диски есть в продаже определенное врем€, потом компани€ рекордер перестает их выпускать). ќт сюда многих выручает »нтернет и люди, € так думаю, сначала ищут ресурс автора (хот€ дл€ того чтобы посмотреть информацию об исполнителе, какие альбомы есть еще) и если они нечего не наход€т на сайте автора они ищут другие пути которые часто €вл€ютс€ нелегальными....

я немного не понимаю действи€ команды –усланы, почему бы...
1. «начительно увеличить доступный на сайте контент, особенно того, что не вошел в альбомы. ѕримеров море Ц »сточник энергии, завод, ѕрощанн€ з диско, водограй, возвращение в ———–, дуэтный ремикс –ассвета...
2.  ак альбом Ђјмазонкаї, также разместить альбомы которые выдавались ранние, и те которые практически невозможно найти в продаже (ќстаннЇ –≥здво 90-х).
---
3. ¬ списке возможных покупок выкладывать ссылки на он-лайн магазины по продаже твердой лицензионной продукции .
4. –азделение на свободно доступный и покупной контент (где сумма платы за все песни альбома будет составл€ть сумму немного дешевле рыночной). ¬ознаграждение и покупку сделать через Webmoney/
5. —оздать ‘ан раздел Ц где будет доступен контент дл€ ‘анов/поклонников Ц —емплы дл€ создани€ ремиксов, и загрузка их на сайт...

“ак гл€дишь в »нтернете и значительно уменьшилось количество нелегальных загрузок и ссылок в том числе и на этом форуме ;)

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 21:05
Reply 


Alex__Angel
я немного не понимаю действи€ команды –усланы, почему бы...
1. «начительно увеличить доступный на сайте контент, особенно того, что не вошел в альбомы. ѕримеров море Ц »сточник энергии, завод, ѕрощанн€ з диско, водограй, возвращение в ———–, дуэтный ремикс –ассвета...
2.  ак альбом Ђјмазонкаї, также разместить альбомы которые выдавались ранние, и те которые практически невозможно найти в продаже


Agree.


“ак гл€дишь в »нтернете и значительно уменьшилось количество нелегальных загрузок и ссылок в том числе и на этом форуме ;)

True.

kozi
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 21:37
Reply 


gosh! how much to read! but for sure not today ;)
Ok btw the thing with the remixes was stupid i did not overthought it.... so when i will have my new version of my fanclub site .. i hope i could fill it into a player or? or is this also illegal?

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 14 Jan 2009 22:21
Reply 


wespecz
By the way, which is the maximum allowed number of words in a message, here?
Don't know exactly but I have used the online tool for counting letters and counted characters in my longest post ever which have reached the full allowed number of letters (the post contains especially invisible links to depict pictures). The online tool showed that there is 7598 characters.


Thanks for useful data!

kozi

gosh! how much to read! but for sure not today ;)
Ok btw the thing with the remixes was stupid i did not overthought it....

True...but is a very good pretext for not learning prior the next exam!
But this is true and sad:
ДRuslana's bold move is, in the first place, directed against widespread intellectual piracy in Ukraine, and provides a lawful and high-quality alternative to shady low-grade downloads often available through websites with questionable content. Ruslana is especially keen on undercutting this kind of piracy since her main target group is teenagers who may be vulnerable to dubious web content".
"My fans won't need to chase my music on questionable webs resources going through dozens of links, porn sites and advertising portals".

It is true that when I intended to download the ДFire or Ice" video, i covered even the eyes of my cat!
But I dont think this is applicable for your site!

ДI don't want my fans to be labeled music thieves. A simple and readily available way of obtaining music from the actual rights holder should bring the Ukrainian consumer to a logical conclusion: If you are looking for music online, first go to the author!" said Ruslana.

Hm!ДThieves" can be called the persons that are stealing Ruslana's music for money!
But not the fans! Nobody will accuse the fans! I dont see any such example in history! The fans want music and this is all! They will pay for her music, for sure, if that is available! "(Un)fortunately", Ruslana has fans in places where it is so hard to get her DVD's!

Katherine
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 01:56
Reply 


nedalex

I like that point but look at it in this way...

imagine as if illegal piracy was completely unheard of no one ever did it!

1. You would have a much better choice in music on sale - as no one will illegal download, artist will gain more money to invest in new music....

2. A lot more artist and poor artist could become recognised - due to no one illegal downloading, music labels become less picky and "underground" artists can become more famous (this especially acounts to Ruslana)

3. Prices of CD's, iTunes songs and albums, will drop in price - more people buy music the less they need to sell it for

4. Top Ten would no longer be a niche subject - top tens are based on sales, and with people downloading this is not accounted for... therefore top ten means nothing and is corrupt!

5. Artists such as Ruslana, N-dubs and all other underground artists, will have a bigger fan base - more recognizable due to higher sales.

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 08:59
Reply 


Katherine
1. You would have a much better choice in music on sale - as no one will illegal download, artist will gain more money to invest in new music....
I was wondering how exactly to formulate this idea. Right, right, right.

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 10:56 - Edited by: nedalex
Reply 


Katherine
for all 5 statesments!

However, reaching the top ten is a consequence of many other things (I mean, the number of sales is consequence of many other things).
And in ths case ("2 new remixes), the" crime" was already done when the first illegal download link appears on Internet!
Somebody has to announce police! Otherwise, there will be a big problem, this:
I can't find these songs on the official market and I can't download them from official site! I don't know which is the address of the
illegal download links (the address can not be post on the forum, cos it is illegal, sure). But maybe other person (a thief) knows it!
He will burn discs with these remixes or he'll insert them on DVD's, he will announce that new Ruslana music is available on that store and many friends will buy them from him (let's say 20 EUR), because they really want that music on their players (at home, in their car, etc.) and they don't have an alternative.
These remixes are not released yet by Ruslana, but I'm sure that quite in this moment someone is paying unofficialy for her music and also the income of someone is growing up!

Katherine
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 13:02
Reply 


And in ths case ("2 new remixes), the" crime" was already done when the first illegal download link appears on Internet!
Somebody has to announce police! Otherwise, there will be a big problem, this:
I can't find these songs on the official market and I can't download them from official site! I don't know which is the address of the
illegal download links (the address can not be post on the forum, cos it is illegal, sure). But maybe other person (a thief) knows it!


there is no download yet by the way....



These remixes are not released yet by Ruslana, but I'm sure that quite in this moment someone is paying unofficialy for her music and also the income of someone is growing up!

Of course this is obviously a bad thing. Do people still buy off the black market anymore though?

nikoleta_rangelova
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 18:52
Reply 


From an article Alex_Angel posted on 13th January:

Interviewer: Ч ¬ы активно защищаете авторские и смежные права в музыкальной сфере. (You are actively deffending autorship rights in the music sphere)

Ч ¬ас поддерживают другие артисты, или вы одиноки в этой борьбе? (Do other artists support you or you are alone in this fight?)

Ruslana: Ч ћногие уже не вер€т, что можно чего-то добитьс€. ќни мне так и говор€т Ђбрось и не трать нервыї. Ќо дл€ мен€ это уже дело принципа. (Many don't belive anymore that something can be achieved. They tell me: forget and don't bother. But for me, it is already a matter of principle)

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 20:38
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Katherine

there is no download yet by the way....


This is not correct!

Katherine
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 20:43
Reply 


nedalex

Really where?

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 20:46 - Edited by: nedalex
Reply 


But for me, it is already a matter of principle

This is the answer for that i had been looking so much (time)!

nedalex
Member
# Posted: 15 Jan 2009 20:51
Reply 


Katherine
Really where?
What for are you asking me that?

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