support Ukrainian language (2)



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Ruslana Forum / Ukraine / support Ukrainian language
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Guido
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2004 03:06
Reply 


I read Dlja tebe, dlja sebe ... (in Cyrilic)
But Ruslana pronounces it as dle tebe, dle sebe.
Is it western Ukrainian pronunciation ?

I have the impression communicating "the points" at Miss Belgian Beauty in english was really a torture for Ruslana.
I've learned myself to count from 1 to 10 in Ukrainian and that's not easy either.

Christiane
Moderator
# Posted: 18 Oct 2004 20:08
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obw
""
I haven´t seen that letter before here......maybe it was mentioned before and I´ve missed it. Well, it almost looks like the "Euro" sign ;-)

obw
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2004 22:46
Reply 


Christiane
it almost looks like the "Euro" sign

Now that you mention it... just how much did the designers of the "euro" symbol cash in? :->

Christiane
Moderator
# Posted: 18 Oct 2004 22:54
Reply 


obw
mmhh......that´s a good question to think about ;-)

obw
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 00:25
Reply 


Guido
I read Dlja tebe, dlja sebe ... (in Cyrilic)
But Ruslana pronounces it as dle tebe, dle sebe.


Not in my mp3 file. :-] At about 1:25? I don't agree.

Spacytoon
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 01:44
Reply 


Amy,ockie,always welcome! we would be happy to show you our interesting sightseeings!and give any help as interpretors!

Spacytoon
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 01:53
Reply 


Lussekatt,
yes!!!=)=)=) of cos,i will help you anyhow with this!

and abt those words,excuse me ,i really wasnt sure wether you know them or not..
their meaning is: bud' laska- you are welcome
zavzhdy-always, rada- glad, dopomogty- to help
thats all...so easy!!=))

Lussekatt
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 02:12
Reply 


Spacytoon

Thanks again!!! Well I was suspecting that "bud' laska" was "youre welcome" and the rest was something like that you just said. But to confirm it it easier said than done!! It takes me alot of time and I dont always have that time but I am so glad for every new ukrainian world I get to know!! I need to know it better as I intend to go to Ukraine next year!!!

Spacytoon
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 02:23
Reply 


aww,Lussekatt,tis wonderful!!=))
you are quick-learner,i need to admit..
so,full course of lang in half a year!..
tse prosto chudovo..
this is just wonderful..

btw,my msn account is naughty_charming@hotmail.com

_sick_driver_
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 02:35
Reply 


I was suspecting that "bud' laska" was "youre welcome"
hmmm i thought its "please"..

ªª
- !

Spacytoon
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 02:38
Reply 


yes,Natalia,you are correct- this is 'please' , but also used like 'welcome' if reply to 'thank you'..

_sick_driver_
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 02:39
Reply 


hmm, never thought of it... but then again i don't go to a ukrainian school and hear the language daily anymore :(

ªª
- !

obw
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 02:47
Reply 


_sick_driver_
I was suspecting that "bud' laska" was "youre welcome"
hmmm i thought its "please"..


And I have learned the "taken by the word" meaning is "be kind". ;) One meaning might not exclude the other, in German there is also only one word for both meanings: "bitte"

_sick_driver_
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 02:51 - Edited by: _sick_driver_
Reply 


obw
And I have learned the "taken by the word" meaning is "be kind". ;) One meaning might not exclude the other, in German there is also only one word for both meanings: "bitte"
nooo but i wasn't breaking it up word by word and translating it.. but by taking it from my knowledge..

ªª
- !

obw
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 03:13
Reply 


_sick_driver_
i wasn't breaking it up word by word and translating it

Me too. :^) I only was aware of the possibility mentioned by me because it seems to be the same way as in German.

Canadiankid
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 03:27
Reply 


I was suspecting that "bud' laska" was "youre welcome"
hmmm i thought its "please"..


isnt the word proshu the same thing??? please and youre welcome? or am i wrong... if i am wrong, what does proshu mean?

Lussekatt
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 04:16
Reply 


I found that the word Bud' laska also can have the meaning of an excuse. Like bud' laska, dozvol'te proyty.

And "a kind of" Proshu can be used as another kind of excuse:

Pere PROSHUyu.

Maybe its all wrong....

Jonne
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2004 15:23
Reply 


btw, Arabic uses an abjad... and I don't think it was so difficult to learn... the grammar feels easy in some parts but then again, like in time tenses etc. it feels impossible.

Spacytoon
Member
# Posted: 20 Oct 2004 01:34
Reply 


Canadiankid and
Lussekatt
you all are correct,they are synonims,just 'proshu' means 'you are welcome' when replying to 'thank you', or 'welcome to us' in guests visit,and in other cases.But it can be used only 1 person saying,and if there are 2 or more ppl inviting, its said - '(laskavo) prosymo'..
And 'preproshuu'/write together/ is also smth like 'I beg you pardon'...
anyway,you learn so quickly! and tis a pleasure to help you!=)

Lussekatt
Member
# Posted: 20 Oct 2004 21:23
Reply 


Spacytoon

I dont learn quickly at all. It is very difficult to learn me something but as I said I will give ukrainian a serious try but I do appreciate your help. You live in Ukraine? Whereabout there?

Lussekatt,
your idea about new topic Ruslanawork is great!!
so curious abt this=)
when/how can i begin to be involved with help in this?..


Sorry that I havent answer you on this. I decided to move the subject here as I didnt want to interfer in the ukr/rus topic speaking english......

What more are you curious of?

Spacytoon
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2004 15:41
Reply 


Lussekatt
I'll help you in understanding Ukra lang as far!!
yes,my place of location is Kyiv=)
so,welcome!

actually,I'm curious about everything that's interesting...
=) though they say,curiousity will not lead to good/long life/heaven etc,etc....=)

obw
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2004 20:53
Reply 


Spacytoon
they say,curiousity will not lead to good/long life/heaven

"curiosity killed the cat" is an english idiom. So take care. ;-)

Spacytoon
Member
# Posted: 29 Oct 2004 19:06
Reply 


obw
thanks!=) but i'll consider on my Arnold's generousity,and hope he won't mind me lending his several lives,lol =)

Lussekatt
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2004 14:45
Reply 


Something that I have noticed and wonder about since long time now is this diffrent "versions" of Ruslanas name in ukrainian. Is it how and when you say her name the name differs? Like, "Ruslana´s car" Ruslana is leaving", and I will meet Ruslana" or ??? Please explain!





obw
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2004 15:35
Reply 


Lussekatt
diffrent "versions" of Ruslanas name in ukrainian.

You are aware of the concept of "grammatical cases"? ;)


Genitive, AFAIK.


Accusative.


Now I am left in the cold... could be Vocative... or Russian? :)

Lussekatt
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2004 16:03
Reply 


obw

You are aware of the concept of "grammatical cases"? ;)


Yes, I know what you mean but I didnt know the words for it. So I dont understand your explanations either unfortunately. I dont know this stuff in swedish either so it doesnt help to translate the word "Accusative". It was many many years since I was forced to learn about grammars in school and I still dont remember or know the concept of it. So the best way to explain it to me is to put Ruslanas name in sentences and in that way shows me the diffrences. Sorry...

* Lussekatt slokar med öronen :( *
I might never be able to learn ukrainian because of this....

obw
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2004 17:22
Reply 


Lussekatt
I still dont remember or know the concept of it.
o problem. There are seven cases in Ukrainian. (German has only 4, I don't know how many cases Swedish has, but most germanic languages have 4 I think.)

. -> "This is Ruslana's song." Or better, maybe "... song of Ruslana." I don't like the english genitive particularly. :) Genitive shows a relation of origin or posession.

Now I am out of good ukrainian examples. :) Accusative is the object of an action, oh, think I have another one: . ->"I am looking for Ruslana."

The vocative would be the case you are adressing a person directly. But when I search for the word it looks more like russian genitive where it is used.

Lussekatt
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2004 18:22
Reply 


obw
o problem.

?? To big problem maybe....

I don't know how many cases Swedish has

Neither do I, have no clue at all.

Well, this was a better explaination, thanks! You are very good on Ukrainian language. I hope I will get to know more of it me too.

versu
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2004 19:56 - Edited by: versu
Reply 


Lussekatt

German and Icelandic have 4 cases each. Not sure about Faeroese, but the other Germanic languages have got rid of theirs. However, there are still remnants in set expressions.

In Swedish for example,

Till sängs - the 's' is the old genetive
Till godo - the 'o' is the old dative singular, I think
Stundom - the 'om' is the old dative plural

There are a number of others.


With Ukrainian, I think it goes like this:

Nominative: RuslanA
Accusative: RuslanU
Dative: RuslanI
Genitive: RuslanY
Instrumental: RuslanOYU
Locative: RuslanI
Vocative: RuslanO! (exclamation mark always with Vocative)

RuslanE is I think the Russian Locative.

obw
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2004 19:58
Reply 


Lussekatt
o problem.

?? To big problem


No. "No problem" - Thinking about this typo... must have been a double miss... the ukrainian "n" () is right of the "t". =:-)

I don't know how many cases Swedish has

Neither do I, have no clue at all.


I remember in school we learned how to ask questions for the cases:
Nominativ - who (or what) does something (wer oder was)?
Genitiv - whose (wessen)?
Dativ - I give sth. to whom (wem)?
Akkusativ - I use who or what (wen oder was)?

I used the german names for the cases to provide another perspective (also the german questions in parenthesis). The names come from relations in old latin, btw:
nomen - name
genus - gender (here: in terms of origin)
dare - to give
accusare - to accuse somebody

The 'still missing cases' for ukrainian are:
Instrumentativ - with what(mittels was)? lat. instrumentum ->instrument, tool.
Lokativ - where (wo)? lat. locus - place
Vokativ - who do you call? Ghostbusters! erm... forget this one. Not really a question here, I think. lat. vox -> voice

Anyway, if such a relation can be expressed with a single inflected word the language knows this case. In German and English there is no instrumentative, prepositions are used for that ("mit", "durch",.../with, by,...) and also for the locative ("bei", "nach",.../to, in,...)

You are very good on Ukrainian language.
You're kidding. ;) I have no idea at all, if you ask me. But then I am a (bloody) perfectionist, so perhaps you are right.

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