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nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 12:43 - Edited by: nikoleta_rangelova
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so all the non-physical notions that exist (love, justice, etc) make it possible also for another non-physical notiion i.e. God to exist as well?!

argument argues that the universe's order and complexity are best explained by reference to a creator god.The anthropic argument suggests that basic facts, such as our existence, are best explained by the existence of God.

May be it is not BEST explained but MoST EASILY explained.....

if it is logically possible for God (a necessary being) to exist, then God exists.[
But it may be also possible (logically) for another life on other planets to exist, and yet there are no so many firm believers that aliens exist

don't take me wrong, I don't want to argue, but I've been always interested in how the world/planet/people came to be, and yet I don't believe it is some God who created it

And also how do you explain the existence of so many religions? If god is one, why do people argue over which is the best/right religion, if God is one and the only difference is his name?! Isn't all this simply an ideology, something which people need to rely on when they need help and feel weak???? Because, if it was a proven fact, there you wouldn't have a choice. If it was a fact there wouldn't be variations

flipsty
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 12:48
Antwort 


nikoleta_rangelova
May be it is not BEST explained but MoST EASILY explained.....

Those both mean the same thing.

nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 12:52 - Edited by: nikoleta_rangelova
Antwort 


Those both mean the same thing.
I mean, when you can't find/make the most appropriate answer/choice about something, you give it up, for example, and choose something else (the easiest) substitution. And since scientists haven't proved how this all was created/formed yet, people resort to religion, because they dislike the unknown and prefer to have some explanation(substitution) for the real reson/cause/factor.........

D39new
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 13:23
Antwort 


nikoleta_rangelova
And also how do you explain the existence of so many religions?
Well... another creed of our faith (meaning Orthodox and Catholic) is that the first people fell into sin... u know... Adam and Eve. Well, after this fall, the truth was deformed in people's mind (meaning the 3 essential soul characteristics: ration, will and freedom), so people started to build ''their own truth''. That's why nowadays (with the participation of the bad understood liberty and democracy) everybody is entitled to create its own truth, religion, organisation and so on...

Isn't all this simply an ideology, something which people need to rely on when they need help and feel weak????
Well, if u look at it ontologicaly (built up in the human nature itself) u'll see that this is a feeling, not an ideology. But if all gets life into the people's mind (meaning pure thinking) then, that's how new relegions are born, just ideologies.
But another peculiar fact is:
if there is only one God... and a lot of religions... why did only 2 resist (wich in fact are not religions but denominations of the same religion, the Christianity) until now and thousands of other ones purely vanished with no one to remember them. This could mean (in fact it does) that these here 2 are the only revelated ones, which base themselves on an irefutable truth, God.
The statistics show that EVERYDAY about 2000 religions appear and dissappear.

Because, if it was a proven fact, there you wouldn't have a choice. If it was a fact there wouldn't be variations
It's true, but if it would have been purely demonstrated, the fully mathematic way... then it wouldn't have been a religion, a faith, it would have been a simple science... the science of God... with hypotesis and demonstrations and a lot of formulas.

Religion doesn't try to make u understand an universal formula for God's existence, but to make u live that idea, to fully experience it yourself.

so all the non-physical notions that exist (love, justice, etc) make it possible also for another non-physical notiion i.e. God to exist as well?!
yup.

But it may be also possible (logically) for another life on other planets to exist, and yet there are no so many firm believers that aliens exist
Because there are too little evidences to prove that and because our own nature dictates us that we surely are unique.
I know u could be bored, but I'll quote the Bible here...
at ch.1 v.1 of the Genesis it's stated that ''In the begining God created heaven and earth'' not heavens and earth not heaven and earths not heavens and earths.

nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 13:31
Antwort 


this really seems to be a looooooooooong discussion

'In the begining God created heaven and earth'' not heavens and earth not heaven and earths not heavens and earths.

and who created God then?

then it wouldn't have been a religion, a faith, it would have been a simple science..
yes true

D39new
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 13:34
Antwort 


nikoleta_rangelova
this really seems to be a looooooooooong discussion
well... this is and will be a very very long discussion.

and who created God then?
nobody... He exists by Himself, as I told u He's the Supreme Cause of all things, even Himself's.

nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 13:42
Antwort 


so all the non-physical notions that exist (love, justice, etc) make it possible also for another non-physical notiion i.e. God to exist as well?!
yup.

bu in spite of what you say, that religion tries to make you believe and experience it yourself, these above:love, justice, etc, you feel them, while how can you feel (well, I suppose you can) god.....he isn't a state of mind or emotion ......

He exists by Himself, as I told u He's the Supreme Cause of all things, even Himself's.

so this totally rejects the idea that everything has its beginning and end.....but in the same time , the end of the world will come, right? and god himself will again remain there and enjoy?

I wonder....why did god decide to make himself HIM and not HER?

D39new
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 13:50
Antwort 


nikoleta_rangelova
bu in spite of what you say, that religion tries to make you believe and experience it yourself, these above:love, justice, etc, you feel them, while how can you feel (well, I suppose you can) god.....he isn't a state of mind or emotion ......
Yeah, God being a spirit can't be a feeling nor can be felt the tangible way, but what do we believe about God? He's love, He's The Truthful Judge...

so this totally rejects the idea that everything has its beginning and end.....but in the same time , the end of the world will come, right?
Well yeah... all will come to an end, except for God. Btw... even our sould are immortal... God created them like this, so that's why people in old times and now us have the ''cultum mortibus'' (cult of the deads), so... even if we have abegining we'll be everlasting by soul.

and god himself will again remain there and enjoy?
It's no any joy for Him. He's not like a child playing Doomsday or WOW or Starcraft on his PC or whatever. The wold as we know it, with disease, misery, pain, injustice will be ended, to make place for the ideal world, where all is sunshine.

I wonder....why did god decide to make himself HIM and not HER?
Well... this is another discussion... If He's spirit... He has no gender. But tradition gave Him this name at masculine.

nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 14:12 - Edited by: nikoleta_rangelova
Antwort 


He's love,

but this love has resulted in so many wars on religious ground, and so many people have died because of this "love"...strange

even if we have abegining we'll be everlasting by soul.
this doesn't sound bad well, really, when the body dies, where do YOU go? your thoughts, your memories, dreams, that what YOU were, not your body??

Well... this is another discussion... If He's spirit... He has no gender. But tradition gave Him this name at masculine.

It seems that religion has provoded "answers" to everything, haha

ksenya lv

# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 14:19
Antwort 


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nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 19 Jun 2008 14:28 - Edited by: nikoleta_rangelova
Antwort 


, ² . , ( ).


2 Earth-darwin . , ,

so we have 2 books on the origin of Man and Earth-Darwin's and God's. And everyone may read and believe in one of the two

ooops a mistake-Darwin wrote his book, but god didn't.....?

D39new
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 20:55
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nikoleta_rangelova
but this love has resulted in so many wars on religious ground, and so many people have died because of this "love"...strange
As being love... God doesn't want war... the war is created thru our fell in the primordial sin.

this doesn't sound bad well, really, when the body dies, where do YOU go? your thoughts, your memories, dreams, that what YOU were, not your body??
Well... the memories, thoughts etc. they are all part of the spirit... the body is just the element that relations us to this world... thru the body and its sences we get all the information that will later be preserved by the soul.
The Bible states in the book of Deuteronomion (this statement is also present in a prayer at the ritual of the burial): ''So the soul may go to where he came from (to God) and the body decompose into those that he was built of (into the ground)'' and ''Ashes to ashes, dust to dust''.

It seems that religion has provoded "answers" to everything, haha
Seems so...

AlexandruRo
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:02
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D39new

Your arguments are totally fictionionary.

AlexandruRo
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:05
Antwort 


***edited by wespecz because of unappropriate language***

D39new
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:06
Antwort 


AlexandruRo
Haha... how much more funny can u get?
... ... ...



wespecz
Moderator
# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:07
Antwort 


AlexandruRo
Your arguments are totally fictionionary.
You can say that you don't believe to the God but please respect that everybody has the right to believe.

AlexandruRo
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:10
Antwort 


wespecz

You can say that you don't believe to the God but please respect that everybody has the right to believe.

You want to let him to ruin his life because of a big lie?

D39new

Maybe it's funny but this is what the bible says. The bible it's funny , not me.

D39new
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:11
Antwort 


AlexandruRo
Maybe it's funny but this is what the bible says. The bible it's funny , not me.
OK... I GOT YOUR POINT!
CAN U STOP NOW BUGGING?

wespecz
Moderator
# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:15 - Edited by: wespecz
Antwort 


AlexandruRo
I either don't believe very much but belief to the God is nothing wrong!

The bible it's funny , not me.


Please stay away from this topic as long as you will touch people who believe with your words.

AlexandruRo
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:15
Antwort 


D39new

Am I wrong? Isn't that what your bible says?

AlexandruRo
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:30
Antwort 


wespecz

This topic is named "Do you believe in God?" (aprox.) Why you didn't thinked that your last words may touch.

I'm sorry , but I have the right to express my opinion here.

See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DemocracY

D39new
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:36
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AlexandruRo
So much blabbering abt democracy and liberty...
I don't think u've payed too much attention to your Civic Education classes back in secondary school...
Well liberty means that u are free to do whatever u want AS LONG AS U DON'T TOUCH/OFFEND ANOTHER PERSON'S LIBERTY.

By coming to me with those attacks at MY RELIGION, MY FAITH... u're kinda DESTROING/TOUCHING my liberty... so... bugg off, PLEASE!!!

wespecz
Moderator
# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:41 - Edited by: wespecz
Antwort 


AlexandruRo
See forum rules number 1 - 3. You're violating them quite often. This has nothing to do with democracy. But if you wish to use law - then "rights of one person ends where rights of other person are beginning"

1. Use a friendly, respectfull language. Do not post any material which is defamatory, abusive, racist, insulting, harrassing, obscene, pornographic and/or threatening.

2. Mind, that we all have different opinions, so don't attack people because of a different opinion.

3. Criticism, debating and discussion is welcome as long as a reasonable language is used.

nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 20 Jun 2008 21:41
Antwort 


I'm sorry , but I have the right to express my opinion here.
yes, we know, I also expressed it and it is more like yours. Just be careful how you express it

D39new
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# Gesendet: 21 Jun 2008 00:40 - Edited by: D39new
Antwort 


nikoleta_rangelova
ooops a mistake-Darwin wrote his book, but god didn't.....?
In fact... God Itself, thru the 3rd Person of the Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit inspired the authors of the books composing the Bible as we know it.
So God revealed to the author what to write (the pure essence) and the author, then, using his linguitic/poetic etc. abilities created the book/s.

so we have 2 books on the origin of Man and Earth-Darwin's and God's. And everyone may read and believe in one of the two
The thing that eveybody has to understand is that religion doesn't fight against science, we, the theologians, are somehow ''scientists'' ourselves... even the word theology means ''word about God'', ''science of studying God, His wills etc.'' (from Theos-God and logos-word, speaking), as stomatology(stoma/tos-mouth, logos-word), biology (bios-life, logos-word).
Darwin's theory is, in part, true... the world evolves... species change (some vanish, others are born or even reborn)... but we cannot state that the man evolved from monkeys. I mean, if mokeys evolved into human... why won't this phenomena happen again? Or... if all these evolvings seak perfection, why didn't the human evolve since last step, the Homo Sapiens Sapiens, 10,000 yrs ago?
Or... what made Darwin think that we evolved from monkeys?
Why not donkeys, dinosaurs or any other species?

AlexandruRo
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# Gesendet: 21 Jun 2008 01:02
Antwort 


wespecz

1. Use a friendly, respectfull language. Do not post any material which is defamatory, abusive, racist, insulting, harrassing, obscene, pornographic and/or threatening.

2. Mind, that we all have different opinions, so don't attack people because of a different opinion.

3. Criticism, debating and discussion is welcome as long as a reasonable language is used.


Ok. But which of these rules were not respected by me?

D39new

Well liberty means that u are free to do whatever u want AS LONG AS U DON'T TOUCH/OFFEND ANOTHER PERSON'S LIBERTY.

You feel offended because I told you what the bible says?

By coming to me with those attacks at MY RELIGION, MY FAITH... u're kinda DESTROING/TOUCHING my liberty... so... bugg off, PLEASE!!!

I attack it because it's wrong to be believe in fairy tales. Instead of studying the bible , the book full of stupid lies , you could spend your time on helping the world were you live. Not the fictionary world of god.

nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 21 Jun 2008 01:07
Antwort 


but we cannot state that the man evolved from monkeys

no, we can't, that's what ksenya lv said above : , ² . , ( ).

religion doesn't fight against science,
yes, the fight was around the...17-18 century? as I also said, I'm not arguing, just discussing and asking in a sphere where many unknown-s exist

why didn't the human evolve since last step, the Homo Sapiens Sapiens, 10,000 yrs ago?
Or... what made Darwin think that we evolved from monkeys?
Why not donkeys, dinosaurs or any other species?

yes, yes, yes, that's the paradox-the human, the best species, the -peak- in evolution that tries to explain the universe, can't say a single truly proved word about their own origin

D39new
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# Gesendet: 21 Jun 2008 01:19
Antwort 


nikoleta_rangelova
no, we can't, that's what ksenya lv said above : , ² . , ( ).
Yeah... I guess it slipped me :D

yes, the fight was around the...17-18 century? as I also said, I'm not arguing, just discussing and asking in a sphere where many unknown-s exist
Nope... not saying that U argue ;) ... )

yes, yes, yes, that's the paradox-the human, the best species, the -peak- in evolution that tries to explain the universe, can't say a single truly proved word about their own origin
That's a peculiar thing, alright...
We know what's the distance from Earth to Sun, from Sun to Moon, how much time does it take to go to Saturn and all of this things... but we cannot put an end to all of these fights, that somehow won't lead to anywhere...
One day I was thinking at this thing with distances, composition of thousands of planets etc.... we study them, we've discovered a lot about them, though it doesn't help us at all (at least not for now), but we can't tell what a baby is saying when s/he prattles... Quite strange...

nikoleta_rangelova
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# Gesendet: 21 Jun 2008 01:24
Antwort 


..
xaxaxaxa,

indeed, when people pretend/believe that they are the masters (oh, how it sounds to say THEY, WE, of course) of the world and in the same time the smallest disaster, accident, disease creates PANIC

D39new
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# Gesendet: 21 Jun 2008 01:34
Antwort 


nikoleta_rangelova
xaxaxaxa,
:P

THEY, WE, of course
yup... it's US there :P

indeed, when people pretend/believe that they are the masters (oh, how it sounds to say THEY, WE, of course) of the world and in the same time the smallest disaster, accident, disease creates PANIC
That's just because we have nothing to reportate us to, that Divinity that I was talking about earlier. We have no clear and sincere aim. We run as lunatics after fame, money, power and we neglige the very essence of ourselves.
Thus appear those workoholics, which die like fools working... the social inadaptees, the misery, the hatry, the unloyal competition.

As u said... why do we panic when we're into trouble... cus we suppose that we have all the power that could exist in a time and/or space?

If there wouldn't be a greater force than ours... we would have no problem in stopping wars, curing cancer or AIDS... and so on...

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